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Originally posted by fild7

ah non hai solo la emme?

l'altro spacciatore(#) invece che dice?

(#) intendesi riferito sempre al mondo automobilistico!

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• la fidata uno (già teflonizzata quest'estate con ottimi risultati: 16km/l e passa di media in autostrada con il motore che ha più di 130k km).


• il pocofidato ma utile scooterone suzuki.

• la sonnecchiosa yamaha 125 che riposa nella casa di montagna.


• e l'annoiata (non la prendo mai) kawa 750.

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Originally posted by zak

mike scusa puoi fare una sequenza del trattamento e come si fa.
cioè es:
-mettere.....
-fare......
-accendere.....

perchè io sono duro di comprendonio e nel fare il trattamento non vorrei fare casini, così leggo riga per riga e mi faccio tutti i passaggi senza errare.
Un'alta cosa cè anche il trattamento per l'olio cambio vero?
Prezzi indicativi

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Originally posted by enetec

.. lo consigliereste oppure no?

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Slick 50 burnishes a thin layer of PFTE on the internal engine parts, problem comes in years later when this thin layer starts to flake off and got into the oil system again. Can we say clogged oil pump? Someone told me that the FAA banned it's use in aircraft because of this problem

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Quaker State bought Slick 50. Seems they wanted the massive profits from the American Public can't get enuf of the "quick fix" snake oils

Slick 50 contains PTFE !!!

I have made many posts here (search under Slick 50, zMax, MMO, Marvel Mystery Oil) regarding the HAZARDS of using any additives. There are a few good advantages to additives ... but VERY few.

It's the fact that oil chemistry is a science and many hours and lots of $$$ goes into blending oil. To think that an additive maker can come out with something that works in improving the quality of an oil without disturbing the existing oil's chemistry is certainly not thinking about the long term consequences. Chemistry clash is a good reson not to mix differant oils and/or additives to achieve your own "homebrew".

"Snake Oils" that have been the subject of FTC investigations, fines, etc.

(a partial listing)

DuraLube:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/9905/duralub2.htm

ProLong:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/9909/prolong.htm

MotorUp:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/9904/motorup5.htm

Slick-50;
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/9607/slick.htm

Whatever you may record as short-term benefits ...
...... always consider the long-term consequences!

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Almost Always Better Than Petroleum Based
By James R. Davis


In almost all cases the use of synthetic oil (at least now) is better in your motorcycle than straight petroleum based oil. But not in all cases. Oil additives with Teflon® in them, for example, don't make any sense to me.

I guess some people might not understand that a good part of petroleum based oils are synthetics anyway (virtually all the additives). Thus, we already have some experience with synthetic lubricating fluids in our engines.

The principal drawback to the synthetics is that they are more expensive than straight petroleum based oils. But in exchange for that higher price you usually get your money's worth. Longer life before they have to be changed, more consistent performance regardless of temperature or engine RPM, better lubrication (more slippery), as well as all the functions of better oils with their additives.

But your oil does more than help pieces of metal slide/roll easier. It has the job of loosening and keeping in suspension sludge and varnish. It has the job of absorbing moisture to inhibit rust and to diminish corrosion. It has to have sufficient variability in viscosity to continue to do its job regardless of temperature changes. It has to be able to withstand shear forces as well as heat and pressure. And, not incidentally, they must not destroy seals while they work.

Generally, synthetics are made today that do all of this, and more, as well as or better than petroleum based oils.

Some synthetics were not as well designed in the past as they are today. Mobil-1, for example, used to eat seals, for example, but it no longer does.

Manufacturers recommend against using synthetics during your engine break-in period. This, because these oils are too slippery and normal break-in wear would not take place as quickly as without them.

Many of those manufacturers used to advise against mixing synthetics with regular oils until they found that they were denying themselves of much of their markets by doing so. Now these synthetics are made so that they can be mixed without any trouble (But I would recommend NOT doing so in any event.)

It is simply not very smart to put some brands of synthetic additives into a motorcycle - such as 'Slick 50'. First, because you run a wet clutch and this kind of synthetic could render your clutch quite inefficient and possibly useless, depending on how much of that product you use. (If not, there may well come a time when you elect to no longer use it and you may well find that your clutch has to be rebuilt just to get rid of what was in there.)

Second, because their claim of bonding Teflon® to metal cannot be true, and if the manufacturers of that product need to rely on false claims to sell their products, what else might they be saying that you are relying on?

Third, because Teflon® is a SOLID! Your oil filter is designed to get rid of solids. Teflon® greatly increases in size with high temperatures - so even if the microscopic sized particles will travel thru your filter to start with, there will come a time when you actually ride your bike and it warms up. Then there are all the other oil flow surfaces and oil passageways that will get smaller as a result of being coated with Teflon®. In any event, the next Tip will discuss additives containing Teflon® in detail.

In summary, I agree that virtually all the synthetic oils are better for your motorcycle than are regular petroleum based oils. They are more expensive, but probably worth the added cost. Your shifting will be easier, you can go longer between oil changes, and you should experience slightly less engine wear by using them.

[Not incidentally, you can expect about a 1% increase in engine power if you use synthetics.]

Teflon® is a registered trademark of DuPont.




Copyright © 1992-2003 by The Master Strategy Group, all rights reserved


Using Teflon Additives
Not Very Smart
By James R. Davis


I will admit at the outset that I have no experience whatever in using Slick 50 (nor will I ever). Further, though much will be said of Slick 50 in what follows, it is all generally true of any other synthetic additive containing Teflon®.

Slick 50 is a PTFE related product (i.e., a Teflon® powder suspended in standard oil). Powder, you will note, is a SOLID. Your oil filter is designed to remove solids and tests have shown that oil filters clog substantially sooner when Slick 50 is used than if using standard oils without it - naturally. Manufacturers claim that the particle size of this powder is smaller than the pore size of oil filters, implying that they will pass right through them, but they do not also say that these particles expand rapidly when exposed to heat - so that they may well pass thru when cold, but not after they reach normal engine temperatures. Tests also demonstrate that other oil passageways also tend to clog when PTFE is used.

Tests? By whom? Are they credible? Answer: by organizations like NASA Lewis Research, the University of Utah Engineering Experiment Station, and even DuPont Chemical Corporation, the corporation that invented PTFE (Teflon®) and that provides PTFE to the manufacturers of these 'magic' oils.

Wait! They sell the PTFE to companies like those that make Slick 50 yet they argue that it clogs oil filters and other oil passageways? Not exactly. In a statement issued about ten years ago, DuPont's Fluoropolymers Division Product Specialist, J.F. Imbalzano said,

"Teflon is not useful as an ingredient in oil additives or oils used for internal combustion engines."

They went on and REFUSED to sell PTFE to anyone that intended to do so!
Naturally, they were sued by, guess who, on grounds of 'restraint of trade'. DuPont lost and have changed their position as follows: DuPont now states that though they sell PTFE to oil additive producers, they have "no proof of the validity of the additive makers' claims." They further state that they have "no knowledge of any advantage gained through the use of PTFE in engine oil."

NASA Lewis Research also ran tests on PTFE additives and they concluded that:

"In the types of bearing surface contact we have looked at, we have seen no benefit. In some cases we have seen detrimental effect. The solids in the oil tend to accumulate at inlets and act as a dam, which simply blocks the oil from entering. Instead of helping, it is actually depriving parts of lubricant."

As to my earlier assertion that Teflon® cannot be made to bond to engine parts, despite what Slick 50 says, the Chief Chemist of Redline Synthetic Oil Company, Roy Howell, says:

"... to plate Teflon on a metal needs an absolutely clean, high temperature surface, in a vacuum. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that the Teflon in Slick 50 actually plates the metal surface. In addition the Cf (Coefficient of friction) of Teflon is actually greater than the Cf of an Oil Film on Steel. Also, if the Teflon did fill in 'craters' in the steel, than it would fill in the honing of the cylinder, and the oil would not seal the piston rings."

Well, you get the picture. PTFE products like Slick 50 tend to clog oil filters and passageways, resulting in faster ENGINE WEAR. Further, Teflon® is NOT as slippery as an Oil Film on Steel.

Nobody is arguing that you won't get higher engine performance (power) or better gas mileage if you use it. On the other hand, if your engine wears out faster I wonder if that's worth it along with the very much higher price.

If you find that you have to change your oil more often, and use this pricey stuff in it each time, the effective cost is even higher. If you decide that clogged oil filters and oil passageways are something you'd rather do without, how do you get rid of it once you put it into your system? Well, in the case of your clutch, by taking it apart and cleaning it! That's an expensive additive 'cost'.

It is no wonder as far as I'm concerned that Slick 50 is often called 'snake oil'. You might not be stupid if you put it into your motorcycle, but I would be.
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- Cos'è lo ZX1?
- E' un trattamento anti-attrito che contiene molecole di "Fullerene C60 e C75" (carbonio) + olio veicolante (o più correttamente "fullerene puro in dispersione di solvente oleoso"). Il Fullerene è la "parte buona" e rimane. L'olio veicolante evapora da + 60 C°, temperatura oltre la quale si attiva il processo termochimico di fissaggio delle molecole.

- Per cosa si differenzia dagli altri trattamenti/additivi anti-attrito?
- Lo ZX1 non contiene residui solidi come P.T.F.E. (acronimo di Politetrafluoroetilene, meglio conosciuto come Teflon, Fluon, Algoflon, etc) e non può quindi compromettere le tolleranze o bloccare i filtri e i passaggi olio. Prodotti come il Sintoflon o Ceramic Liquid Power contengono Teflon e polimeri simili al P.T.F.E. e composti dello zinco. Il Teflon resiste fino ad una temperatura massima di 350 °C. Le controindicazioni del Teflon sono elencate in un comunicato della DuPont (proprietaria del marchio e del brevetto della molecola del Teflon) del 1984 in cui ne sconsigliò l'impiego nella lubrificazione dei motori. La DuPont è anche proprietaria della Krytox, azienda (specializzata nella produzione di lubrificanti) che non annovera tra i suoi prodotti additivi olio motore a base di teflon. Il vero problema del Teflon nei motori però non parrebbe essere esso stesso, ma bensì il veicolante in cui il teflon è "sciolto" che ha la funzione evitare la formazione di coaguli potenzialmente in grado di ostruire il filtro dell'olio e le canalizzazioni minori. La DuPont scrisse quella "diffida" proprio perchè all'inizio degli anni '80 circolavano molti prodotti e alcuni di essi utilizzavano veicolanti scadenti.
Il fullerene utilizzato nello ZX1 funziona in modo diametralmente opposto. Le molecole si comportano come un cuscinetto tra le parerti metalliche in contatto trasformando l'attrito radente in attrito volvente (effetto cuscinetti a sfera per intenderci). Il vantaggio del PTFE (a patto di trovarne con un buon veicolante) è la durata nel tempo. Il vantaggio del Fullerene è la certezza di non essere in alcun modo dannoso per il motore.

- Cosa fa?
- Migliora la silenziosità del motore e rende l'erogazione più fluida. Non cambia le proprietà dell’olio.

- Prezzo?
- Il costo è particolarmente alto. In rete ho trovato questa tabella: 100ml: € 21,00 / 250ml: € 43,50 / 1litro: € 136,50 / 4litri: € 490,00

- Ci sono delle alternative?
- Esistono in commercio olii già additivati (oguno ha "battezzato" il proprio prodotto con un nome identificativo... in sostanza si tratta sempre di molecole di Fullerene C60). Esiste ad esempio il BARDAHL XTC C60 che identifica la sua soluzione come "Attrazione Polare" (sfruttando il gioco di parole "di attrazione dei polimeri"), oppure il Royal Purple (della Renox) che chiama la sua tecnologia "Synerlec". Molto simile anche l'Hy-per Lube. In questi casi non è necessario mettere quantità aggiuntive di ZX1.

- Nell'aggiungere l'additivo, va tenuto conto della quantità aggiuntiva e devo sottrarlo dalla quantità d'olio normale, e quindi mettere meno olio? Oppure no, dato che va ad interagire come un velo protettivo?
- ...Ni... L'ideale sarebbe metterlo in aggiunta all'olio a livello massimo in quanto l'olio che veicola le molecole di fullerene evapora facilmente. Per maggiore sicurezza si può arrivare arrivare al massimo con zx1 già mescolato, ma successivamente bisogna ricordarsi di controllare e rabboccare (la prima volta che si usa zx1 potrebbe esserci un'evaporazione eccessiva in quanto l'olio veicolante si porta dietro un po' dell'olio motore...)

- In che quantità va usato?
- Va usato, indicativamente, nella misura del 5% (esempio: su 900Cl di olio motore, 45cc) e va aggiunto preferibilmente all'olio nuovo. L'azione dei fullereni non varia a seconda dello stato di usura dell'olio al quale vengono additivati ma è meglio aggiungerlo ad un olio pulito (e nuovo) ma solo per il fatto che quell' olio fa bene... al motore!!!

- Dopo che ho aggiunto l'additivo cosa devo fare?
- La molecola di Fullerene si attacca per temperatura e pressione... l'ideale sarebbe, dopo averlo aggiunto, percorre un tratto ad una velocità sostenuta (senza trasgredire il codice della strada!).

- E se ne metto di più?
- Oltre il 10% sarebbe inutile e dannoso: l'olio veicolante evapora rapidamente e, vista la dose, si tira dietro facilmente anche più olio del dovuto. Il 5% risulta una percentuale idonea per una distribuzione omogenea.

- Solo la prima volta?
- Va usato una volta, non è necessario poi ripetere l'operazione "per intero" in quanto le molecole si "attaccano" alle pareti della parti interessate. Effettuando il cambio dell'olio, è sufficiente aggiungerne quantità irrisorie (nell'ordine del 2%)


- Solo nell'olio motore?
- No, è possibile utilizzarlo in tutte quelle situazioni in cui degli elementi sviluppino attrito (ad esempio: trasmissioni, differenziali, circuiti idraulici)

- Si può aggiungere alla benzina?
- E' sconsigliabile far passare questi additivi sugli iniettori perchè il beneficio è solo temporaneo. C'è il rischio che si formino dei depositi proprio sugli augelli...

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Originally posted by SMOGBIKER

Allora.....per il problema sulle bronzine...la prima cosa che comunque mi verrebbeinmente di suggerirti...e' quella di montare bronzine diverse dalle originali....qualcosa di piu' specifico per intenderci? con 160 dollar...ti fai il set completo trimetallico alta resa....e dormi sogni tranquilli:
http://store.monkeywrenchracing.com/index.php?cPath=43_69_297

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